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	<title>Comments on: Fractions of Seconds</title>
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	<description>Daily posts of Excel tips…and other stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Gary Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-42646</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-42646</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just to make things a bit more confusing, it is possible to use a custom format like mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss.000 to get the time to display in the cell to miliseconds (example &quot;01/01/2009 14:33:12.012?). However, should you be using VBA to do something like write this data out to a load file format for Oracle, and you use&lt;br&gt;
Format(Cells(Row, Col).Value, &quot;mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss.000?)&lt;br&gt;
you do not get the miliseconds, but rather get &quot;01/01/2009 14:33:12.000?.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is with Excel 2003.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It must be a feature.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to make things a bit more confusing, it is possible to use a custom format like mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss.000 to get the time to display in the cell to miliseconds (example &#8220;01/01/2009 14:33:12.012?). However, should you be using VBA to do something like write this data out to a load file format for Oracle, and you use<br />
Format(Cells(Row, Col).Value, &#8220;mm/dd/yyyy hh:mm:ss.000?)<br />
you do not get the miliseconds, but rather get &#8220;01/01/2009 14:33:12.000?.  </p>
<p>This is with Excel 2003.  </p>
<p>It must be a feature.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Livingston</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-36287</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Livingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-36287</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe the trick is to preformat the field before you put data in it. Unfortunately that is usually the opposite way we typically do things, and sometimes challenging especially if there are hundreds of rows of data. I used general as the format for the field that will contain the 2 times I am going to do math on and hh.mm.ss.000  as the field to hold the math result after the sourec fields are pasted into excel.&lt;br&gt;
some gotcha&#039;s ...&lt;br&gt;
If the source of the pasted fields is a text file format ie. notepad then excel will always change the formating of the time destination field to a time format and round the result. If the sorce of the past field is a TSO session (green screen,  3270 based format) the destination field remains as general and is vieable as hh:mm:ss.0000.&lt;br&gt;
Math can be done on the pasted fields into the result field as indicated above.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The &quot;text to columns&quot; feature in excel always reformats the fields as hh:mm:ss.0   ...&lt;br&gt;
So if you only need to paste a couple of cells you can do it, if you are transfering a file with many rows or columns you are basically out of luck.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the trick is to preformat the field before you put data in it. Unfortunately that is usually the opposite way we typically do things, and sometimes challenging especially if there are hundreds of rows of data. I used general as the format for the field that will contain the 2 times I am going to do math on and hh.mm.ss.000  as the field to hold the math result after the sourec fields are pasted into excel.<br />
some gotcha&#8217;s &#8230;<br />
If the source of the pasted fields is a text file format ie. notepad then excel will always change the formating of the time destination field to a time format and round the result. If the sorce of the past field is a TSO session (green screen,  3270 based format) the destination field remains as general and is vieable as hh:mm:ss.0000.<br />
Math can be done on the pasted fields into the result field as indicated above.</p>
<p>The &#8220;text to columns&#8221; feature in excel always reformats the fields as hh:mm:ss.0   &#8230;<br />
So if you only need to paste a couple of cells you can do it, if you are transfering a file with many rows or columns you are basically out of luck.</p>
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		<title>By: John Griffiths</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-34867</link>
		<dc:creator>John Griffiths</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-34867</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I use excel extensively for timing rowing trials and head of river races. I find if you enter the numbers as time values - h:m:s.00 (e.g. 0:2:33.45) it does store the fractions of a second. It only becomes a problem if you try to edit that value - but then you just have to enter the whole time again correctly.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can perform calculations (subtraction for start time from finish time to find race time) and this works perfectly OK.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You need to set custom display formats as already mentioned (m:ss.00 normally works for most rowing activities).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you want to access the actual seconds value, you can also use the custom format [s] - this just displays the time as seconds only.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Finally, thanks to the explanation of the first contributor (Dick Kusleika) - I realised if you multiply a time serial (with no date) by 86400 (number of seconds in a day) - this gives you the actual time in seconds - including any fractions you&#039;ve entered. So then you can plot time values on a chart as well.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use excel extensively for timing rowing trials and head of river races. I find if you enter the numbers as time values &#8211; h:m:s.00 (e.g. 0:2:33.45) it does store the fractions of a second. It only becomes a problem if you try to edit that value &#8211; but then you just have to enter the whole time again correctly.</p>
<p>You can perform calculations (subtraction for start time from finish time to find race time) and this works perfectly OK.</p>
<p>You need to set custom display formats as already mentioned (m:ss.00 normally works for most rowing activities).</p>
<p>If you want to access the actual seconds value, you can also use the custom format [s] &#8211; this just displays the time as seconds only.</p>
<p>Finally, thanks to the explanation of the first contributor (Dick Kusleika) &#8211; I realised if you multiply a time serial (with no date) by 86400 (number of seconds in a day) &#8211; this gives you the actual time in seconds &#8211; including any fractions you&#8217;ve entered. So then you can plot time values on a chart as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Wim Gielis</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-34018</link>
		<dc:creator>Wim Gielis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-34018</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hello all&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just updated 2 of my Excel files:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; - a file with all major SWIMMING records: men/women - long course/short course - all distances - World/American/European/Oceania/African/Asian/Olympic/Championship/Belgian record. For each record: time/holder/nationality/city/country/date&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; - a file with all major ATHLETICS records: men/women - outdoor/indoor - all events - World/American/European/Oceania/African/Asian/Olympic/Championship/Belgian record. For each record: time/holder/nationality/city/country/date&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sources: various websites, including IAAF, FINA, Wikipedia, ...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I put it on my website, but the site is in Dutch, so feel free to email me if you want a copy via email. &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:wimmekegielis@hotmail.com&quot;&gt;wimmekegielis@hotmail.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also store the data in TM1 cubes (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/tm1/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/tm1/&lt;/a&gt;); I am a BI consultant mainly working with TM1.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cheers,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wim Gielis&lt;br&gt;
AKA Wigi on various Excel boards&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all</p>
<p>I just updated 2 of my Excel files:</p>
<p> &#8211; a file with all major SWIMMING records: men/women &#8211; long course/short course &#8211; all distances &#8211; World/American/European/Oceania/African/Asian/Olympic/Championship/Belgian record. For each record: time/holder/nationality/city/country/date</p>
<p> &#8211; a file with all major ATHLETICS records: men/women &#8211; outdoor/indoor &#8211; all events &#8211; World/American/European/Oceania/African/Asian/Olympic/Championship/Belgian record. For each record: time/holder/nationality/city/country/date</p>
<p>Sources: various websites, including IAAF, FINA, Wikipedia, &#8230;</p>
<p>I put it on my website, but the site is in Dutch, so feel free to email me if you want a copy via email. <a href="mailto:wimmekegielis@hotmail.com">wimmekegielis@hotmail.com</a></p>
<p>I also store the data in TM1 cubes (see <a href="http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/tm1/" rel="nofollow">http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/tm1/</a>); I am a BI consultant mainly working with TM1.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Wim Gielis<br />
AKA Wigi on various Excel boards</p>
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		<title>By: xMRG</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-25185</link>
		<dc:creator>xMRG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 03:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-25185</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You colud make a macro and assign a hot key to it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you don&#039;t know how then follow this&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  In Excel press Alt-F11.&lt;br&gt;
  The Visual Basic Editor will open.&lt;br&gt;
  In Visual Basic Editor (VBE) select the menu Insert then Module.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  Copy and paste the following subroutine into the VBE Module&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Sub RightNow()&lt;br&gt;
        ActiveCell = Now&lt;br&gt;
    End Sub&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;  Close the Visual Basic Editor&lt;br&gt;
  From Excel press Alt-F8&lt;br&gt;
  Highlite the RightNow macro&lt;br&gt;
  Select Options...&lt;br&gt;
  Set the Ctrl key combination you want to use to execute the macro&lt;br&gt;
  Press OK and exit the Macro dialog&lt;br&gt;
  Format your cells as HH:MM:SS&lt;br&gt;
  Press your Ctrl key combo to insert the time into the active cell.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hope this helps.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, checkout this Mr. Excel Videocast for using events.  You can just use a mouse click to input the time.  You will have to modify his example a tiny bit but I think you will get the idea.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://mrexcel.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=217885&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mrexcel.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=217885&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you need to time in fractions of a second the macro will need to be a bit more complicated.  The following may give you a start down that path.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2004/06/28/timing-macros/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2004/06/28/timing-macros/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good luck&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You colud make a macro and assign a hot key to it.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t know how then follow this</p>
<p>  In Excel press Alt-F11.<br />
  The Visual Basic Editor will open.<br />
  In Visual Basic Editor (VBE) select the menu Insert then Module.</p>
<p>  Copy and paste the following subroutine into the VBE Module</p>
<p>    Sub RightNow()<br />
        ActiveCell = Now<br />
    End Sub</p>
<p>  Close the Visual Basic Editor<br />
  From Excel press Alt-F8<br />
  Highlite the RightNow macro<br />
  Select Options&#8230;<br />
  Set the Ctrl key combination you want to use to execute the macro<br />
  Press OK and exit the Macro dialog<br />
  Format your cells as HH:MM:SS<br />
  Press your Ctrl key combo to insert the time into the active cell.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Also, checkout this Mr. Excel Videocast for using events.  You can just use a mouse click to input the time.  You will have to modify his example a tiny bit but I think you will get the idea.</p>
<p><a href="http://mrexcel.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=217885" rel="nofollow">http://mrexcel.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=217885</a></p>
<p>If you need to time in fractions of a second the macro will need to be a bit more complicated.  The following may give you a start down that path.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2004/06/28/timing-macros/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2004/06/28/timing-macros/</a></p>
<p>Good luck</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Stokes</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-25126</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Stokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-25126</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d like to use Excel for a cycling club Time Trial.&lt;br&gt;
In a time trial we start a master clock, then let the riders go at one minute intervals (there&#039;s no zero&#039;th rider). When they cross the line we subtract (start number * 1 min) from the elapsed time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I roughed out a work sheet and was hoping to be able to enter an accurate time using Ctrl+Shift+; (I&#039;m sort of using Xcel as a stop watch!)&lt;br&gt;
But, regardless of how I format the cell, it only records hh:mm and not the seconds.&lt;br&gt;
Is there any way of entering an accurate, current time in a cell (other than typing it in)?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to use Excel for a cycling club Time Trial.<br />
In a time trial we start a master clock, then let the riders go at one minute intervals (there&#8217;s no zero&#8217;th rider). When they cross the line we subtract (start number * 1 min) from the elapsed time.</p>
<p>I roughed out a work sheet and was hoping to be able to enter an accurate time using Ctrl+Shift+; (I&#8217;m sort of using Xcel as a stop watch!)<br />
But, regardless of how I format the cell, it only records hh:mm and not the seconds.<br />
Is there any way of entering an accurate, current time in a cell (other than typing it in)?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-22683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-22683</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tushar Mehta Said: &quot;Microsoft made a very bad design decision when it implemented time as a fraction... Try this simple test....&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The point here is that Excel relies on the format of the cell to identify a date. If, instead of using +0.1, you repeat your steps using temporal functionality e.g. +TIME(0, 144, 0), formatting the cells using an appropriate date format  e.g. yyyy-mm-dd hh:nn:ss, then I think you&#039;ll find the result is zero. BTW why doesn&#039;t the DATEDIF function support hours/minutes/seconds? (to which the official answer of course is, What DATEDIF function?)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To get back to the original question, I&#039;d suggest that temporal functionality in Excel and VBA is accurate only to one second granularity. By leveraging double float you can achieve sub-seconds to an accuracy of 3 milliseconds but you&#039;d stray beyond supported behaviour and as a punishment you&#039;d have to write your own revised temporal functionality. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Further consider that the sole temporal data type in the product is designed for &#039;timestamp&#039; data i.e. instants. I rather suspect intervals are required here, in which case I&#039;d suggest storing the data as an integer, using the smallest time granule required (perhaps milliseconds), with appropriate formatting for display purposes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jamie.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tushar Mehta Said: &#8220;Microsoft made a very bad design decision when it implemented time as a fraction&#8230; Try this simple test&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>The point here is that Excel relies on the format of the cell to identify a date. If, instead of using +0.1, you repeat your steps using temporal functionality e.g. +TIME(0, 144, 0), formatting the cells using an appropriate date format  e.g. yyyy-mm-dd hh:nn:ss, then I think you&#8217;ll find the result is zero. BTW why doesn&#8217;t the DATEDIF function support hours/minutes/seconds? (to which the official answer of course is, What DATEDIF function?)</p>
<p>To get back to the original question, I&#8217;d suggest that temporal functionality in Excel and VBA is accurate only to one second granularity. By leveraging double float you can achieve sub-seconds to an accuracy of 3 milliseconds but you&#8217;d stray beyond supported behaviour and as a punishment you&#8217;d have to write your own revised temporal functionality. </p>
<p>Further consider that the sole temporal data type in the product is designed for &#8216;timestamp&#8217; data i.e. instants. I rather suspect intervals are required here, in which case I&#8217;d suggest storing the data as an integer, using the smallest time granule required (perhaps milliseconds), with appropriate formatting for display purposes.</p>
<p>Jamie.</p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Olly</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-22670</link>
		<dc:creator>Olly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-22670</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Doug,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I realised what I had done a few minutes after I had sent that last post!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your UDF works and the spreadsheet looks good.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Everyone, thank you very much for taking the time out to help me.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>I realised what I had done a few minutes after I had sent that last post!!</p>
<p>Your UDF works and the spreadsheet looks good.</p>
<p>Everyone, thank you very much for taking the time out to help me.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-22667</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-22667</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dick&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You might consider just using a Custom Format for the cells set to&lt;br&gt;
0?:&quot;00.00&lt;br&gt;
and then enter 123.03 which you can then manipulate later&lt;br&gt;
It&#039;s only a slightly lateral way of working, but will certainly&lt;br&gt;
sort quite happily and is much easier to enter than messing with&lt;br&gt;
colons and fullpoints&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dick</p>
<p>You might consider just using a Custom Format for the cells set to<br />
0?:&#8221;00.00<br />
and then enter 123.03 which you can then manipulate later<br />
It&#8217;s only a slightly lateral way of working, but will certainly<br />
sort quite happily and is much easier to enter than messing with<br />
colons and fullpoints</p>
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		<title>By: Niek Otten</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2007/03/04/fractions-of-seconds/#comment-22664</link>
		<dc:creator>Niek Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1617#comment-22664</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it perfectly logical to do so. After all: time IS a fraction of a day.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Indeed there are many problems with floating point arithmetic. It is certainly not suited for many financial applications. True (scaled) decimal arithemetic (as an option) is on my Excel wish list for many years already.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it perfectly logical to do so. After all: time IS a fraction of a day.</p>
<p>Indeed there are many problems with floating point arithmetic. It is certainly not suited for many financial applications. True (scaled) decimal arithemetic (as an option) is on my Excel wish list for many years already.</p>
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