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	<title>Comments on: Spreadsheets Are the Devil</title>
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	<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/</link>
	<description>Daily posts of Excel tips…and other stuff</description>
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		<title>By: David Haslam</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-23942</link>
		<dc:creator>David Haslam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 13:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-23942</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I would draw your attention to this interesting paper by Hans Pottel of Innogenetics, that demonstrates flaws in the way Excel implements various statistical calculations. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt/pottel.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt/pottel.pdf&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the General Remarks section he writes,Quote:&lt;br&gt;
Another important remark is that although many people have voiced their concerns about the quality of Excel&#039;s statistical computing, nothing has changed. Microsoft has never responded to comments on this issue. Consequently, the statistical flaws reported in Excel 97 worksheet functions and the Analysis Toolpak are still present in Excel 2000 and Excel XP. This, of course, is most unfortunate.&lt;br&gt;
The final section summarises the implications:Quote:&lt;br&gt;
Will these problems affect you?&lt;br&gt;
If you are using Excel for simple data analysis, on relatively easy data sets, it is most unlikely you will have any problems. The impact of the poorer algorithms used by Excel will be more visible on relatively &#039;not so easy&#039; data sets. If you are dealing with very large numbers, scaling and/or centering your numbers will solve the problem. Note that you should not use Excel&#039;s STDEV function to scale your data, in case of large numbers. In most cases, centering the data will suffice to generate the correct results. Some of the difficulties mentioned in this text can be overcome by using a good third-party add-in. These add-ins will usually provide the user with many more statistical tools, including non-parametric hypothesis testing, which is completely absent in Excel.&lt;br&gt;
It remains to be seen whether any of these flaws are addressed in Excel 2007.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would draw your attention to this interesting paper by Hans Pottel of Innogenetics, that demonstrates flaws in the way Excel implements various statistical calculations. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt/pottel.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mis.coventry.ac.uk/~nhunt/pottel.pdf</a> </p>
<p>In the General Remarks section he writes,Quote:<br />
Another important remark is that although many people have voiced their concerns about the quality of Excel&#8217;s statistical computing, nothing has changed. Microsoft has never responded to comments on this issue. Consequently, the statistical flaws reported in Excel 97 worksheet functions and the Analysis Toolpak are still present in Excel 2000 and Excel XP. This, of course, is most unfortunate.<br />
The final section summarises the implications:Quote:<br />
Will these problems affect you?<br />
If you are using Excel for simple data analysis, on relatively easy data sets, it is most unlikely you will have any problems. The impact of the poorer algorithms used by Excel will be more visible on relatively &#8216;not so easy&#8217; data sets. If you are dealing with very large numbers, scaling and/or centering your numbers will solve the problem. Note that you should not use Excel&#8217;s STDEV function to scale your data, in case of large numbers. In most cases, centering the data will suffice to generate the correct results. Some of the difficulties mentioned in this text can be overcome by using a good third-party add-in. These add-ins will usually provide the user with many more statistical tools, including non-parametric hypothesis testing, which is completely absent in Excel.<br />
It remains to be seen whether any of these flaws are addressed in Excel 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: frank</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-23932</link>
		<dc:creator>frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-23932</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A one truth-version of company data remains such an elusive goal because it mainly consists in making individuals agree on data models. Compared to this huge undertaking, discussing the shortcomings of Excel really seems futile, even if it is often not the best choice for a business application.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A one truth-version of company data remains such an elusive goal because it mainly consists in making individuals agree on data models. Compared to this huge undertaking, discussing the shortcomings of Excel really seems futile, even if it is often not the best choice for a business application.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacie Penney</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20400</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacie Penney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20400</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Has anyone else noticed the ads on the bottom?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot; Oracle Tools  Extend your Oracle System. Meet Sarbox Requirements.&quot;&lt;br&gt;
&quot; Sarbanes-Oxley Solutions  Promote best practices for Sarbanes Oxley compliance -Free white paper.&quot;&lt;br&gt;
&quot;   Spreadsheet Professional  Spreadsheet review software for Sarbanes Oxley. Free download.  &quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;SOX is tossed around in my company as a reason to make any CYA decision.  Need something done twice?  Call it SOX and you&#039;re golden.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone else noticed the ads on the bottom?</p>
<p>&#8221; Oracle Tools  Extend your Oracle System. Meet Sarbox Requirements.&#8221;<br />
&#8221; Sarbanes-Oxley Solutions  Promote best practices for Sarbanes Oxley compliance -Free white paper.&#8221;<br />
&#8221;   Spreadsheet Professional  Spreadsheet review software for Sarbanes Oxley. Free download.  &#8220;</p>
<p>SOX is tossed around in my company as a reason to make any CYA decision.  Need something done twice?  Call it SOX and you&#8217;re golden.</p>
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		<title>By: Nile</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20371</link>
		<dc:creator>Nile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20371</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sarbanes-Oxley was initially greeted with hollow laughter here in the Square Mile: all British financial institutions must comply with the Financial Services Act, which specifically states that we have to have adequate internal management controls, and those control systems have to be documented, audited, and respected in daily use.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s like we already knew what was coming from SOX, and had been doing it for the last fiftenn years... But the laughing stopped when we realised just how detailed, bureaucratic and burdensome Sarbanes-Oxley turned out to be. The costs in management time, and the administrative overhead - never mind the lawyers&#039; fees - are making every company that ever did business in the USA (or ever offered shares, bonds or depositary certificates to a US investor) look for ways of extricating themselves from this dysfunctional jurisdiction. Take a look at how many companies are floating in London this year, when they all used to issue their IPOs in New York.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Worst of all, the long, long lists of rules and filings have turned out to be another gadarene rush into the swamp of &#039;prescriptive&#039; audits - a game for clever lawyers and accountants, who satisfy the letter of the law in a lengthening list of ever-more-detailed and complex regulations, and sign off the audit with a statement of compliance with all relevant legislation. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here in Britain, we sign off accounts as &#039;True and Fair&#039;; &#039;principles-based&#039; audit, and I know which type I prefer. So when I document a trading spreadsheet, and put in place the audit controls, I can&#039;t just cover my backside by stating that it satisfies the detailed wording of a specific regulation: I have nowhere to hide when the FSA conduct their audit, nor in a court of law, unless the controls I put in place are &#039;Adequate&#039;, transparent and effective, and a full and determined attempt to comply with the spirit and principles of the law.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarbanes-Oxley was initially greeted with hollow laughter here in the Square Mile: all British financial institutions must comply with the Financial Services Act, which specifically states that we have to have adequate internal management controls, and those control systems have to be documented, audited, and respected in daily use.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like we already knew what was coming from SOX, and had been doing it for the last fiftenn years&#8230; But the laughing stopped when we realised just how detailed, bureaucratic and burdensome Sarbanes-Oxley turned out to be. The costs in management time, and the administrative overhead &#8211; never mind the lawyers&#8217; fees &#8211; are making every company that ever did business in the USA (or ever offered shares, bonds or depositary certificates to a US investor) look for ways of extricating themselves from this dysfunctional jurisdiction. Take a look at how many companies are floating in London this year, when they all used to issue their IPOs in New York.</p>
<p>Worst of all, the long, long lists of rules and filings have turned out to be another gadarene rush into the swamp of &#8216;prescriptive&#8217; audits &#8211; a game for clever lawyers and accountants, who satisfy the letter of the law in a lengthening list of ever-more-detailed and complex regulations, and sign off the audit with a statement of compliance with all relevant legislation. </p>
<p>Here in Britain, we sign off accounts as &#8216;True and Fair&#8217;; &#8216;principles-based&#8217; audit, and I know which type I prefer. So when I document a trading spreadsheet, and put in place the audit controls, I can&#8217;t just cover my backside by stating that it satisfies the detailed wording of a specific regulation: I have nowhere to hide when the FSA conduct their audit, nor in a court of law, unless the controls I put in place are &#8216;Adequate&#8217;, transparent and effective, and a full and determined attempt to comply with the spirit and principles of the law.</p>
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		<title>By: DA</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20350</link>
		<dc:creator>DA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;DK:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree with Znice freakin&#039; rant.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree with you that non-diversified portfolios should be approached with open eyes to the negative possibilities.  I have little sympathy for folks who loaded up on Enron, or never diversified when it NNG and Houston Natural Gas merged to become Enron because &quot;our family has owned the stock forever&quot;.  (And you should have little sympathy for me when LVLT tanks.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also agree with you that Enron failed due to fraud.  But what was fraud&#039;s cause?  Greed and really terrible business decisions.  These guys wouldn&#039;t have needed to resort to the fraud if they would have stayed within the company&#039;s competencies.  When that industry de-regulated in the mid 1990&#039;s, many utilities started buying all kinds of crap with no idea how it workedjust to &quot;grow the business&quot;.  So preced fraud a healthy dose of greed and ignorance, and viola, you have major implosions of Fortune 500 companies and Big 8/6/5/4 accounting firms.  Then Congressthat&#039;s right, the same body that deregulated utilitiescomes up with SOX as the corporate messiah.  And so the hits just keep on coming . . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now you have me all worked up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;DA&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DK:</p>
<p>I agree with Znice freakin&#8217; rant.  </p>
<p>I agree with you that non-diversified portfolios should be approached with open eyes to the negative possibilities.  I have little sympathy for folks who loaded up on Enron, or never diversified when it NNG and Houston Natural Gas merged to become Enron because &#8220;our family has owned the stock forever&#8221;.  (And you should have little sympathy for me when LVLT tanks.)</p>
<p>I also agree with you that Enron failed due to fraud.  But what was fraud&#8217;s cause?  Greed and really terrible business decisions.  These guys wouldn&#8217;t have needed to resort to the fraud if they would have stayed within the company&#8217;s competencies.  When that industry de-regulated in the mid 1990&#8242;s, many utilities started buying all kinds of crap with no idea how it workedjust to &#8220;grow the business&#8221;.  So preced fraud a healthy dose of greed and ignorance, and viola, you have major implosions of Fortune 500 companies and Big 8/6/5/4 accounting firms.  Then Congressthat&#8217;s right, the same body that deregulated utilitiescomes up with SOX as the corporate messiah.  And so the hits just keep on coming . . .</p>
<p>Now you have me all worked up.</p>
<p>DA</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick O'Beirne</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20341</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick O'Beirne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20341</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Even if spreadsheets are not the devil, Old Nick must have had a hand in creating some of them :-)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sysmod.com/praxis/prax0404.htm#Excel&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.sysmod.com/praxis/prax0404.htm#Excel&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
The Devil&#039;s guide to spreadsheet creation&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;( a little early for Friday humour)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if spreadsheets are not the devil, Old Nick must have had a hand in creating some of them <img src='http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.sysmod.com/praxis/prax0404.htm#Excel" rel="nofollow">http://www.sysmod.com/praxis/prax0404.htm#Excel</a><br />
The Devil&#8217;s guide to spreadsheet creation</p>
<p>( a little early for Friday humour)</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20325</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20325</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nothing like a good ole DK rant to kickstart the morning ;).  I agree with pretty much everything that Dick has to say; some of the responses, not so much.  Especially, the company stock comment in 401k plans.  If the fidicuiaries of plans that only offered company stock haven&#039;t been sued, I will be amazed.  I think there were plenty of studies in the 80s and 90s that showed average fund offerings were around 5 and then grew to 12 or 15 in more recent years.  If a plan only offered one and that one was company stock, that is horrible decision making by the plan sponsor. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, about human error and Excel.  I agree it happens and it will keep happening, but mindless drones that plug information into Excel without stepping back and &#039;analyzing&#039; the outcome of calculations, need better bosses or better training.  Controller, accounting managers, accounting supervisors, whatever title you want to give them have to have the knowledge and take the time to actually review what they&#039;ve done to ensure it passes the &#039;smell test&#039;.  A little healthy skepticism is always good when you look at things.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing like a good ole DK rant to kickstart the morning <img src='http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  I agree with pretty much everything that Dick has to say; some of the responses, not so much.  Especially, the company stock comment in 401k plans.  If the fidicuiaries of plans that only offered company stock haven&#8217;t been sued, I will be amazed.  I think there were plenty of studies in the 80s and 90s that showed average fund offerings were around 5 and then grew to 12 or 15 in more recent years.  If a plan only offered one and that one was company stock, that is horrible decision making by the plan sponsor. </p>
<p>Also, about human error and Excel.  I agree it happens and it will keep happening, but mindless drones that plug information into Excel without stepping back and &#8216;analyzing&#8217; the outcome of calculations, need better bosses or better training.  Controller, accounting managers, accounting supervisors, whatever title you want to give them have to have the knowledge and take the time to actually review what they&#8217;ve done to ensure it passes the &#8216;smell test&#8217;.  A little healthy skepticism is always good when you look at things.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20322</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20322</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;fzz -&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot;back before Enron crashed companies could offer little other than their own stock in their 401(k) plans&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not true. I worked for a Fortune 100 company until five years ago. Our 401(k) plan included around a dozen funds, one linked to the company stock, of course, but the rest offering a range of risk/return for the participants. The 401(k) plan was managed by one of the large financial services companies that handles individual and group plans like this. The opportunity for fraud was very slim in this arrangement.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fzz -</p>
<p>&#8220;back before Enron crashed companies could offer little other than their own stock in their 401(k) plans&#8221;</p>
<p>Not true. I worked for a Fortune 100 company until five years ago. Our 401(k) plan included around a dozen funds, one linked to the company stock, of course, but the rest offering a range of risk/return for the participants. The 401(k) plan was managed by one of the large financial services companies that handles individual and group plans like this. The opportunity for fraud was very slim in this arrangement.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20323</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20323</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Johan wrote: &quot;That is because it is mandatory to be audited by an external party (as well as do internal audits on a regular basis)...&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unless, of course, the auditing/consulting firm is part of the problem as well - ala Arthur Anderson&#039;s role in the Enron debacle.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johan wrote: &#8220;That is because it is mandatory to be audited by an external party (as well as do internal audits on a regular basis)&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Unless, of course, the auditing/consulting firm is part of the problem as well &#8211; ala Arthur Anderson&#8217;s role in the Enron debacle.</p>
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		<title>By: Lu Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/archives/2006/07/25/spreadsheets-are-the-devil/#comment-20321</link>
		<dc:creator>Lu Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/?p=1455#comment-20321</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Spreadsheet or paper and pencil?  Yes, spreadsheets can be relied on too heavily, and people do make mistakes.  But, as productivity is pushed, employees have to identify ways to meet those demands, or watch their jobs go somewhere else.  The large accounting systems often fail to meet individual users needs, either because of SOX, funding, lack of functionality, or training.  It is sometimes faster, easier, to put together a spreadsheet to support a manual function, or task. What we need is better training for spreadsheets, including how to make sure a spreadsheets works!  In the end, any computer program large or small, does what the programmer and user tells it to.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spreadsheet or paper and pencil?  Yes, spreadsheets can be relied on too heavily, and people do make mistakes.  But, as productivity is pushed, employees have to identify ways to meet those demands, or watch their jobs go somewhere else.  The large accounting systems often fail to meet individual users needs, either because of SOX, funding, lack of functionality, or training.  It is sometimes faster, easier, to put together a spreadsheet to support a manual function, or task. What we need is better training for spreadsheets, including how to make sure a spreadsheets works!  In the end, any computer program large or small, does what the programmer and user tells it to.</p>
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